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	<title>Comments on: Why the Seattle coffee scene now lags Portland&#8217;s.</title>
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	<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/</link>
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		<title>By: alana</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>alana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-669</guid>
		<description>Hey Sam,

I&#039;m writing as an outsider to what we would call here in the Mid-West the whole &#039;West Coast coffee scene.&#039;  So maybe my question will seem silly to those of you who are more immersed in that culture and are working with more baseline information.

In Chicago, coffee shops that actually source, roast, and serve their own beans are greatly in the minority.  In fact, off the top of my head there are fewer than ten of us.  There are shops that take great care in their coffee preparation that do not roast their own beans, but it seems that the division in terms of coffee quality and care breaks more along the line of in-house roasting than anywhere else.  I&#039;m wondering how that fits into what you&#039;re describing as the difference between Portland and Seattle.  Your description of Seattle&#039;s quantity-focused mode of production sounds a lot like what we experience in most coffee shops out here.  But most of our coffee shops have little to no relationship to the roasting process.  Do you see that divide out West as well?  I&#039;d be interested to hear your thoughts on this question.

Thanks for the great article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Sam,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m writing as an outsider to what we would call here in the Mid-West the whole &#8216;West Coast coffee scene.&#8217;  So maybe my question will seem silly to those of you who are more immersed in that culture and are working with more baseline information.</p>
<p>In Chicago, coffee shops that actually source, roast, and serve their own beans are greatly in the minority.  In fact, off the top of my head there are fewer than ten of us.  There are shops that take great care in their coffee preparation that do not roast their own beans, but it seems that the division in terms of coffee quality and care breaks more along the line of in-house roasting than anywhere else.  I&#8217;m wondering how that fits into what you&#8217;re describing as the difference between Portland and Seattle.  Your description of Seattle&#8217;s quantity-focused mode of production sounds a lot like what we experience in most coffee shops out here.  But most of our coffee shops have little to no relationship to the roasting process.  Do you see that divide out West as well?  I&#8217;d be interested to hear your thoughts on this question.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great article.</p>
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		<title>By: Bre</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>Bre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-661</guid>
		<description>Well done. That has often been a big issue for me, the lack of knowledge being passed on to customer. It seemed as if barista&#039;s and roasters had all this amazingly interesting information, but it&#039;s been these little shiny nuggets that we&#039;ve kept secret. It&#039;s time to educate. You educate the customers on what coffee is, where coffee comes from (it&#039;s not this magic little bean that appears randomly in your cup, a lot of hard work goes into coffee production, from some of the poorest countries), and education leads to more wide spread appreciation of what coffee is, which is turn can mean better prices for green bean (in favor of the farms) that focus on quality. Anyway, I really liked the article. Cheers from Portland!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done. That has often been a big issue for me, the lack of knowledge being passed on to customer. It seemed as if barista&#8217;s and roasters had all this amazingly interesting information, but it&#8217;s been these little shiny nuggets that we&#8217;ve kept secret. It&#8217;s time to educate. You educate the customers on what coffee is, where coffee comes from (it&#8217;s not this magic little bean that appears randomly in your cup, a lot of hard work goes into coffee production, from some of the poorest countries), and education leads to more wide spread appreciation of what coffee is, which is turn can mean better prices for green bean (in favor of the farms) that focus on quality. Anyway, I really liked the article. Cheers from Portland!</p>
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		<title>By: Lisette</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-652</guid>
		<description>We extend our thanks for your post. The detailed tale of two cities has provided some of the research required in planning our upcoming trip from Australia. We are working hard to down here to educate our market into a greater appreciation of the single origin bean. It is disheartening to read that Seattle, and even Portland may not the the Meccas which we seek - but we are looking forward to the North Western field trip one cup at a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We extend our thanks for your post. The detailed tale of two cities has provided some of the research required in planning our upcoming trip from Australia. We are working hard to down here to educate our market into a greater appreciation of the single origin bean. It is disheartening to read that Seattle, and even Portland may not the the Meccas which we seek &#8211; but we are looking forward to the North Western field trip one cup at a time.</p>
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		<title>By: Momo</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Momo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 05:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-599</guid>
		<description>Kudos on your thoughtful post.  I&#039;ve spent a lot of time in both cities as a consumer and your observations resonate with me.  Your call to action really points at the fact that Seattle in itself has developed to a larger market over the last 15 years and this second wave as you describe is a big fork in the road for the character of the city.  In some ways it&#039;s a testament to the growth of the market, but success breeds challenges and I think your critique encapsulates the philosophical question a growing market must always go through.  Keep&#039;m comin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos on your thoughtful post.  I&#8217;ve spent a lot of time in both cities as a consumer and your observations resonate with me.  Your call to action really points at the fact that Seattle in itself has developed to a larger market over the last 15 years and this second wave as you describe is a big fork in the road for the character of the city.  In some ways it&#8217;s a testament to the growth of the market, but success breeds challenges and I think your critique encapsulates the philosophical question a growing market must always go through.  Keep&#8217;m comin.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-594</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-594</guid>
		<description>Hm. I seem to have used the word &quot;interesting&quot; twice in quick succession there. Whoops!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm. I seem to have used the word &#8220;interesting&#8221; twice in quick succession there. Whoops!</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-593</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-593</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful commentary, everybody!  It&#039;s awesome to hear so many complementary perspectives on this issue.  There seem to be a lot of interesting ideas floating around about ways to improve on the current state of the coffee industry.  It&#039;ll be interesting to see what sort of model they coalesce in to.

More soon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful commentary, everybody!  It&#8217;s awesome to hear so many complementary perspectives on this issue.  There seem to be a lot of interesting ideas floating around about ways to improve on the current state of the coffee industry.  It&#8217;ll be interesting to see what sort of model they coalesce in to.</p>
<p>More soon!</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-591</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 04:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-591</guid>
		<description>This is a wonderful posting.  I feel that many of your points are very valid and we need more people in the Seattle scene saying these things.  I do find that the biggest issues in Seattle is the dogmatic view that people have on coffee.  There is an aversion to change what has been done since the early 90&#039;s.  The amount of americanos that people drink vs single origin drip coffee is shocking.  I find it hard to say Seattle (despite all of its coffee faults) is really that far behind Portland.

Recently I have taken a few trips to Portland to check out the cafe scene and there is some very interesting stuff going on; Heart, Barista, and Coffee House 5 just to name a few.  You mentioned the holding onto 2nd wave ideas in Seattle, but it can be seen just as much in Portland.  The main area that this is found is in pricing.  Sustainability is an enormous issue that the industry faces.  We want to pay farmers for the amazing coffee that they are growing.  For this to happen we need to educate the public that coffee should cost more then $.80 for a bottomless cup.  Much like all fine, hand crafted products, great coffee costs more.  With this in mind I was amazed at how low the prices were in Portland.  There was one &quot;cutting edge&quot; cafe that was selling 8oz drip coffee for $1.00!  This wasn&#039;t the only location selling their coffee for less then $2 a cup.  The espresso based drinks were also priced lower then the majority of cafes in Seattle.

For all the talk we here about small roasters popping up in Portland, I was amazed that out of the eleven or so shops I went to, that only a small handful served there coffee in methods other then french press into an airpot.  Some cafes are trying to offer more brewing methods, but the execution is lacking.  At one shop I was amazed to see Chemex as an option on the menu, and for less then $3 none the less.  I ordered one and was amazed to watch as the barista behind the counter brewed my coffee in a beehouse dripper only to turn around a say &quot;here is the chemex of the Kenya&quot;.  Upon further inspection I didn&#039;t see a single Chemex in the shop.  This coupled with an earlier experience with a syphon pot that tasted baggy due to the barista using a fresh filter without it being seasoned first.  Amazing ideas, just with poor results.

Portland also has the advantage of a greater D.I.Y. ethic, one that Seattle is sorely lacking.  This ethic helps newer shops from having to be top level professionals right out of the gate.  There can be a homey/ second hand feel to the shops, that customers in Seattle just wouldn&#039;t stand for.

The elements that you call for are all elements that think both coffee scenes need.  Every level of this industry is advancing with amazing leaps and bounds.  From farmers, to sourcing, to roaster, to technology.  The failure is at the retail level.  I think both cities have a long way to go.

Even the &quot;cutting edge&quot; Portland shops still use menu boards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a wonderful posting.  I feel that many of your points are very valid and we need more people in the Seattle scene saying these things.  I do find that the biggest issues in Seattle is the dogmatic view that people have on coffee.  There is an aversion to change what has been done since the early 90&#8217;s.  The amount of americanos that people drink vs single origin drip coffee is shocking.  I find it hard to say Seattle (despite all of its coffee faults) is really that far behind Portland.</p>
<p>Recently I have taken a few trips to Portland to check out the cafe scene and there is some very interesting stuff going on; Heart, Barista, and Coffee House 5 just to name a few.  You mentioned the holding onto 2nd wave ideas in Seattle, but it can be seen just as much in Portland.  The main area that this is found is in pricing.  Sustainability is an enormous issue that the industry faces.  We want to pay farmers for the amazing coffee that they are growing.  For this to happen we need to educate the public that coffee should cost more then $.80 for a bottomless cup.  Much like all fine, hand crafted products, great coffee costs more.  With this in mind I was amazed at how low the prices were in Portland.  There was one &#8220;cutting edge&#8221; cafe that was selling 8oz drip coffee for $1.00!  This wasn&#8217;t the only location selling their coffee for less then $2 a cup.  The espresso based drinks were also priced lower then the majority of cafes in Seattle.</p>
<p>For all the talk we here about small roasters popping up in Portland, I was amazed that out of the eleven or so shops I went to, that only a small handful served there coffee in methods other then french press into an airpot.  Some cafes are trying to offer more brewing methods, but the execution is lacking.  At one shop I was amazed to see Chemex as an option on the menu, and for less then $3 none the less.  I ordered one and was amazed to watch as the barista behind the counter brewed my coffee in a beehouse dripper only to turn around a say &#8220;here is the chemex of the Kenya&#8221;.  Upon further inspection I didn&#8217;t see a single Chemex in the shop.  This coupled with an earlier experience with a syphon pot that tasted baggy due to the barista using a fresh filter without it being seasoned first.  Amazing ideas, just with poor results.</p>
<p>Portland also has the advantage of a greater D.I.Y. ethic, one that Seattle is sorely lacking.  This ethic helps newer shops from having to be top level professionals right out of the gate.  There can be a homey/ second hand feel to the shops, that customers in Seattle just wouldn&#8217;t stand for.</p>
<p>The elements that you call for are all elements that think both coffee scenes need.  Every level of this industry is advancing with amazing leaps and bounds.  From farmers, to sourcing, to roaster, to technology.  The failure is at the retail level.  I think both cities have a long way to go.</p>
<p>Even the &#8220;cutting edge&#8221; Portland shops still use menu boards.</p>
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		<title>By: Dantzler</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-590</link>
		<dc:creator>Dantzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 03:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-590</guid>
		<description>Nick--and many other Seattle businesses were ruined when the monorail project bought up land and then resold it to the highest bidder (instead of the entity they originally stole it from) when the monorail died.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick&#8211;and many other Seattle businesses were ruined when the monorail project bought up land and then resold it to the highest bidder (instead of the entity they originally stole it from) when the monorail died.</p>
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		<title>By: SPRUDGE REPORT 2010 &#187; Lewontin: Seattle Leaves You Wantin&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>SPRUDGE REPORT 2010 &#187; Lewontin: Seattle Leaves You Wantin&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-589</guid>
		<description>[...] Slayerespresso.com: Why the Seattle coffee scene now lags Portland’s. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Slayerespresso.com: Why the Seattle coffee scene now lags Portland’s. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.slayerespresso.com/2010/01/05/why-the-seattle-coffee-scene-now-lags-portlands/comment-page-1/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slayerespresso.com/?p=891#comment-588</guid>
		<description>Stephen Vick: &quot;the City of Seatte and King County Health Departments are giant pains in the ass, and corrupt...Another friend of mine in Seattle got passed a couple of bumps in his inspection by slipping the King County health inspector a c-note.&quot;

Isn&#039;t your friend a rather major part of the problem?  I&#039;d rather read, &quot;My friend Honest Herb, who owns Cafe Noname in Fremont, reported Joe Schmoe of the Health Department for soliciting a bribe to bypass Health Dept regulations.&quot;  In this case, your friend apparently was able to bypass requirements by paying a $100 bribe to an official, probably for far less than it would have cost to meet the requirements.  Who&#039;s &quot;more corrupt&quot; here?  That said, it&#039;s unclear if the the health inspector asked for the bribe, or your friend offered it to the inspector.

Regarding Portland assisting a small business when affected by construction, Seattle (and related transit authorities; KC Metro, etc.) does this too.  I live in Southeast Seattle, and many small businesses along our new light rail corridor were given assistance to make it through the chaotic construction period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Vick: &#8220;the City of Seatte and King County Health Departments are giant pains in the ass, and corrupt&#8230;Another friend of mine in Seattle got passed a couple of bumps in his inspection by slipping the King County health inspector a c-note.&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t your friend a rather major part of the problem?  I&#8217;d rather read, &#8220;My friend Honest Herb, who owns Cafe Noname in Fremont, reported Joe Schmoe of the Health Department for soliciting a bribe to bypass Health Dept regulations.&#8221;  In this case, your friend apparently was able to bypass requirements by paying a $100 bribe to an official, probably for far less than it would have cost to meet the requirements.  Who&#8217;s &#8220;more corrupt&#8221; here?  That said, it&#8217;s unclear if the the health inspector asked for the bribe, or your friend offered it to the inspector.</p>
<p>Regarding Portland assisting a small business when affected by construction, Seattle (and related transit authorities; KC Metro, etc.) does this too.  I live in Southeast Seattle, and many small businesses along our new light rail corridor were given assistance to make it through the chaotic construction period.</p>
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